We had the opportunity to speak with K9andSports ambassador Horst-Dieter Träger (Dieter), who has insights into both service dog work and dog sports and breeding. Dieter is a service dog trainer with the customs service and is responsible for purchasing and training dogs for the state of Bremen. Since 1982, Dieter has also run the SV kennel "von der Wannaer Höhen" and is a performance judge with the SV, having himself been very successful in the field.
Patricia: You once told me you weren't a political person. But now you're very active with K9andSports. Why?
Dieter: I think it's a good thing to bring dog sports and service dog work closer to the public and to be transparent. After all, it's a good thing that benefits society. We don't need to, and shouldn't, hide from it.
We would have major problems with the authorities, for example, if it weren't for private working dog breeders and trainers. It would then be even more difficult to obtain high-quality dogs.
Perhaps due to a lack of information, the sporting and breeding suitability tests are becoming increasingly lax. This poses the risk of a decline in the quality of our dogs. However, we depend on high quality to maintain our service.
Patricia: And why do you need the private sphere to get dogs for the authorities?
Dieter: Because the authorities alone can't breed dogs on the scale needed. I was able to discuss this with the German Armed Forces at a workshop; they run their own breeding program. But that's limited to two, maybe three litters a year. And not all of those dogs are suitable for service.
The actual need for service dogs is simply too great for authorities to meet on their own. Therefore, the majority of dogs used by authorities come from private breeders. The selection of dogs used for breeding is thus in private hands. The authorities then make the best of what they get – and it's my impression that the quality has declined somewhat in recent years. Of course, we're working with a limited budget and rising prices. I therefore hope that with K9andSports we can put breeding and selective breeding at the forefront – because these are crucial factors.
Patricia: What kind of dogs do you need? Do you always train them using dual methods?
Dieter: For a while, there was a trend away from guard dogs. Some department heads preferred to buy "pure" detection dogs. This was a way to avoid the high training costs associated with the dual training system.
Especially in recent years, attacks on officers have increased significantly. The issue of personal safety is becoming increasingly critical. Unfortunately, we are seeing more and more people relying on the fact that we are not (or not allowed to) use our weapons and are disregarding instructions. This happens considerably less often when we have a service dog with us. Accordingly, we are placing renewed emphasis on the protective aspect of our dogs.
Patricia: Does it really make that much of a difference if you have a dog with you?
Dieter: Yes, absolutely. The difference between operating with or without a dog is truly significant. A dog is not as predictable for the "other side".
Unfortunately, finding good dogs is a major problem. My place of work, for example, is Bremerhaven. Working there involves an extremely high noise level. Often, the dogs have to climb a 30-meter gangway before they can board. Temperatures on the ship or in the container are often very high. It's far from a given that dogs will remain motivated and persistent in this environment. It requires a truly exceptional dog.
Patricia: How do you check the quality of the dogs before you buy them?
Dieter: Initially, it looks similar to the DMC breeding suitability test: first, the handler and I, as the trainer, play with the dog. Then the dog has to show that it is ready to "fight" for the prey.
Most dogs run like crazy when they see a ball fly away. However, the picture is quite different when the prey is "dead." This can often be seen by throwing the toy and then spinning the dog around. Some dogs have already lost their purpose: some stop searching altogether, others lose intensity, or give up after a very short time. It's also possible to tell if a dog has only learned visual searching: this is more common than you might think.
Patricia: What about environmental safety?
Dieter: I always observe how a dog behaves in unfamiliar surroundings: in halls, on smooth floors, etc. However, it's often difficult to tell from an assessment whether a dog displays good drive or has high nervous activity. They can look very similar at first. And then you're surprised when they're actually in action.
This is one of the reasons we generally have a four- to five-week trial period when purchasing a dog, to rule out any behavior that might disrupt our work. We've had dogs that refused to go any further once they saw an automatically opening glass door at the airport or stood on the smooth floor.
Such dogs can be given a certain degree of security through training and habituation. However, in my experience, they will regularly fail to achieve the peak performance of a naturally confident dog. Generalizing a behavior is very time-consuming, and we simply don't have that time.
Florian: Exactly, that's also a very critical point for us in breeding assessments: does a dog display activity due to temperament or because it has a sensitive temperament? It's really difficult to discern. But one thing is certain: we don't want a dog that displays activity due to excessive nervousness. The dog should be intrinsically motivated. What can you observe in sports to see in that regard?
Dieter: As a judge, I observe the dogs a lot at trials. A trial is a good way to identify differences between dogs. However, a definitive statement about a dog's temperament cannot be made based solely on a trial.
At the German Shepherd Dog Club (SV) events, I always enjoy watching how the participants and their dogs make their way to the adjacent field for the awards ceremony. You see dogs that can't settle down at all, or that come out of the trailer already stressed and panting. For me, it's important that a working dog can also relax. If that's not possible, it's a significant limitation for me.
Patricia: Do I understand correctly: sport alone is not enough for selection?
Dieter: Sport does bring about a certain degree of selection. But it's not a final selection. We always need supplementary breed assessments or breeding suitability tests. A complete picture only emerges when we evaluate the dogs both within the program (test) AND outside of the program.
I once had a female dog I was very pleased with after she passed her IGP1 exam. She performed well there. Four weeks later, I took her to a dog show where there was also a shooting competition. This shot clearly affected her. One wonders how that can be, because she showed no signs of it during her IGP1 exam. But this exam was her routine, a fixed sequence of events that helped her overcome it. This experience led me to a realization: when dogs know and anticipate their routines, certain traits can be masked so effectively that we, as handlers, don't even notice.
Florian: Bullet resistance – is that an important topic for you?
Dieter: Yes, in a broader sense. Gunfire resistance is undoubtedly important in practice. But this is also linked to noise (in)sensitivity, which is at least as important in the field. I already mentioned the noise level at the Port of Hamburg: among other things, iron plates frequently fall to the ground there. The noise this creates far exceeds that of a gunshot. It is essential for us that our dogs remain calm even in such noisy environments. We cannot do without this.
Patricia: I recently read that noise sensitivity in dogs, regardless of breed, has supposedly increased significantly in recent years. The cause can be genetic or imprinted. We see virtually no noise sensitivity in Malinois at the DMC (German Malinois Club). And if the DMC's breeding selection is working, noise sensitivity shouldn't increase within this group either. A dog that isn't gun-proof won't be approved for breeding.
Dieter: I do indeed test every dog for gun-shyness (9mm). However, not during training, but when the dog is "off duty," for example, running around in a field. Some dogs show sensitivity. But we don't see an increase in noise sensitivity. We have bigger problems with their temperament. You can see that in the working German Shepherds as well. I place great importance on the dog having a good prey drive and reacting appropriately to stress. But all that isn't enough; the dog must have stable nerves and be able to calm down again. If a dog can't do that and is still overstimulated after half an hour of stress, then in my opinion, it shouldn't be used for breeding.
Patricia: You said you looked at my dog's ZTP, the "small" breeding approval in the DMC: What did you find lacking? What else would you have wanted to see as part of an inspection?
Dieter: I really liked some things, but others were missing.
You had to walk through the group of spectators with the dog running free. The dog remained neutral and didn't cling to you. I enjoyed these walk-through scenarios. However, I would require them to be even more comprehensive.
I also really enjoyed the game: when your dog had to jump into the tunnels and canisters and show activity to get the toy.
However, prey drive can override character. I would like to see tests conducted to see how the dog behaves when not driven by prey drive; whether it can then also manage smooth floors, metal grates, and jumps over obstacles. For me, the results are not realistic when the dog is driven by prey.
Florian: That's a good point. We've already had many discussions with authorities that use service dogs. We see the benefit of being able to assess difficult environmental conditions without the dogs' instincts kicking in.
Patricia: Do you check anything else in terms of nose work?
Dieter: Yes, we have the dogs search more persistently in various situations. For example, we take the dog out of sight after throwing a ball. Only after one or two minutes, when the stimulus of the flying ball is no longer present, do we release the dog. Ideally, the dog still searches persistently. It's less important to us whether the dog finds the ball; but it should be prepared to search for two or three minutes.
At our dog training school, we have many rooms available for scent work. Here, the dogs have to overcome obstacles such as large, sheet-metal-covered heating pipes, or we hide the ball in a tower of empty 5-liter canisters, which topples over when they search for it. Some dogs are so intimidated by the clattering that they won't go near the canisters again.
These are essentially the additions I would recommend for your breeding assessment. The key is resilience without stimulation or expectations.
Florian: These are excellent additions to the ZTP (Breeding Suitability Test): checking how the dog handles stress without being driven. Another topic is frustration tolerance and drive stability. Our exercises are still too easy in this regard. Your exercises, on the other hand, are significantly more demanding. From the outside, it might not look difficult – but for the dog, it is.
Patricia: One more question about the sport: what is your opinion on abolishing the exertion phase or stick strikes in IGP?
Dieter: I think it's a shame they're being abolished. In my view, it's probably just a concession to public opinion. If you look at the strain caused by the soft stick, it's actually very minimal. But this issue isn't a top priority for me: in my 20 years as a judge, I haven't seen many animals abandon the helper because of the stress of the stick. Often, the dogs are already under stress before the stick is even struck.
Florian: As you said, some dogs already have the problem before the stick even appears. Do you think that's because the stick already has a meaning from training? Would the dog still have the problem if it had never been confronted with it before?
Dieter: Yes, it's certainly possible that the stick will then lose its significance.
Patricia: You've been a judge for 20 years. Why do you do that?
Dieter: I enjoy judging. I've been a breeder for years. Sound selection requires sound judging in trials. Even if selection isn't comprehensive, judging is still an important part of it. For me, judging therefore has a significant aspect to breeding.
Patricia: What do you dislike seeing in exams?
Dieter: Passive biting. A full and steady grip alone isn't enough for me; I also want to see a certain level of activity. However, not all judges encourage this, especially when they criticize an unsteady grip, even if the dog is actually quite dominant. For me, it's more important that the dogs are active in their biting than if they're missing a couple of centimeters in fullness.
Patricia: When does your heart open up?
Dieter: When a dog effectively thwarts an attack. Of course, taking into account the further course of the protection training. Even dogs with thin nerves can thwart an attack "well" if they want to get behind the helper to have more peace and quiet there. But when the dog effectively thwarts an attack out of conviction, then my heart leaps with joy.
The most important exercise for me, however, is the back transport, which, in my opinion, reveals more about the dog's quality than the long section. During the back transport, the dog demonstrates good obedience and must then immediately and wholeheartedly engage in the exertion. This is a very complex exercise with a high degree of selective quality.
In contrast, during the longer section, the dog has 30 or 40 meters to consider its next move. The prey is sometimes visible 20 meters ahead, and I'm not always certain the dog has correctly understood its instructions. However, the ambush from the back transport is, in my opinion, a highly complex exercise with a high degree of selective pressure.
Florian: I agree with you. We see that a lot with the Malinois. The dogs run down like they've been gassed, but they don't even know why they started running, and then they either run past quickly or don't bite properly. I think some people misinterpret the speed as a sign of something more.
Dieter: Something else just occurred to me. Patricia, I watched the video of your last IGP trial, and I noticed that the time interval between the escape and the defense wasn't up to code. The dog had just released the attack before it started again. There should be a five-second gap. The dog needs a chance to make a mistake, after all :), and besides, the required guarding performance can't be properly assessed otherwise.
I like to see what's happening in other associations. We in the SV (German Shepherd Dog Association) also have recurring issues. From my perspective, cross-association helper tests would be beneficial, as they could help standardize the handling of the dog during trials. For example, the opening phase should definitely be standardized. The correct opening phase involves a challenge, not a prey stimulus.
In reality, we see a prey drive in 90% of cases. After the dog has fled, the helper should keep their arm properly extended in front of them, then initiate the retrieve with a weighted approach. Standardization would help dog handlers by providing consistency.
Florian: That is indeed an important factor. If the style of incitement were standardized, judges would have the opportunity to influence training. If you dictate how the accomplices must behave, the correct approach will prevail over time.
Dieter: Yes, and sometimes it has to hurt, otherwise we won't change. Some breeds, including the German Shepherd unfortunately, have a striking number of problems with jumping. In my view, this is a matter of genetics, since the training is largely the same for all breeds. Judges can also have an influence here. If the assessment of the dog during the forward and backward jump results in a failing grade or a satisfactory grade, something will change over time.
Patricia: IGP is a very time-consuming sport. Can you think of any ways to make it more accessible?
Dieter: We could consider testing object searching in Section A instead of tracking. Finding suitable tracking terrain isn't easy in many areas. Object searching can easily be done on a secondary training field within your own group. This would simplify the sport, and we'd even have spectators at trials and competitions in Section A. Currently, almost no one watches.
Florian: What could one assess during such a search?
Dieter: Object work is also part of the assessment here. You can also evaluate the dog's manageability, meaning how well it can be directed and guided. And if the dog only runs from point A to point B and doesn't search otherwise, I can still assess the intensity of its search of the area.
Patricia: Thank you, Dieter. That was another very interesting conversation!
